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liljim

Age/Gender: 30, Male
Location: England

Zoink....

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Entry #6

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liljim

Renewed Interest in Music Production

Posted by liljim May. 24, 2008 @ 3:52 PM EDT

Years ago, in my student days, I used to be really into music and was in a band. We did our fair share of gigs and a few recordings, the latter of which you can listen to here.

I was never unhappy with the tracks we recorded there, but never entirely happy, either. We were students when we recorded the tracks, and so had limited money to throw away. Even budget studios clock up costs relatively quickly, so we had to take a few shortcuts that we'd have probably not done had we had more money and time to dedicate to the recordings.

A few weeks ago, Coz, who was in the band with me and played guitar, and I were out on a night out up in Newcastle. We got to talking about how good it would be to hear the individual tracks from the recordings again.

A couple of weeks went by and, after another night out, I decided to see whether I could find any cheap ADAT machines on eBay.

ADAT machines became a reasonably cheap digital alternative method of recording to analog spool machines. The machines themselves were expensive, but the tapes, which are sVHS tapes and look more or less identical to a regular VHS tape, were very cheap.

You'd have three machines all synced up together, each recording 8 tracks to give you a combined total of 24 tracks. I kept the tapes from the recordings, which is why I started my hunt for an ADAT machine of my own.

I managed to find one that was surprisingly cheap, put in a low bid, and won it - which surprised me, because I only put in a small price, given that I was just doing all of this on a whim.

Coz has kept up with recording stuff and has Nuendo. He also has a decent sound card and a small mixing desk, so I took the machine and tapes around to his place a week last Sunday. We got to rigging everything up, but it took longer to get the sound card and wiring figured out than I thought - about an hour. Neither of us have much time these days, so once we'd done that, we just had a quick play around with getting a couple of tracks over onto Nuendo and then I went home.

He copied a couple of the audio tracks for me and put them onto a portable harddrive and I went and collected them last Sunday. When I got them onto my computer and into sound forge, it became apparent that they needed a bit of tidying up.

Any half decent technician will immediately do a couple of things (amongst others) when recording instruments:-

- Apply Compression. Most instruments have quite a dynamic range. If you tap a drum, for example, it'll be a lot quieter than if you give it a good whack. This is a good thing, it's the nature of the instrument.

However, you need to limit the range, so that instruments don't drown each other out in the mix. You can overdo it, too - if you over compress, the instrument literally gets a sound like it's getting the life sucked out of it.

Although most instruments are recorded with a degree of compression on them, it's sometimes necessary to add some compression on the mixdown, given that you don't want to overdo things as you're recording the track and find out you have to re-record it.

- Noise Reduction to get rid of unwanted sound. I'm thinking of the vocals, here, though it applies to other instruments. Those who're familiar with recording will know all too well that sound that's sent to the musicians earphones can spill over into the mix.

So, when I got these tracks into Sound Forge, the first thing I did was to see if the tracks could do with any further compression. They didn't, but there was quite a lot of background noise that I needed to eliminate.

The result is pretty clean vocal tracks. Coz and I are going to have a go at creating different arrangements when we get a chance, though if any budding musicians want to give it a go, let me know and I'll get the tracks to you. I only currently have the two lead vocal tracks for Patchwork Sky and Song for Someone, the latter of which was recorded to a click track, so shouldn't require any time stretching. Not sure about the other track, it's been 10 years since we recorded them.

adat.jpg

Updated: 05/24/08 3:54 PM Log in to comment! | Share this!

The People Have Spoken

27 Comments

May. 24, 2008 | 3:59 PM MaestroRage says:

I would love to give it a shot jim! How can I get my grubby hands on said tracks?

May. 24, 2008 | 4:01 PM liljim responds:

Send me a PM with the tracks you want and an e-mail address I can send the files to. I'll convert them to a decent quality MP3 and if you can't receive big attachments, I can try splitting the file up in WinRAR.


May. 24, 2008 | 4:00 PM Phil says:

What happened to your last news post?

May. 24, 2008 | 4:02 PM liljim responds:

It was a pointless late night ramble, so I deleted it.


May. 24, 2008 | 4:53 PM TehSlapHappy says:

Is liljim leaving NG to rock out?! lol. This might come in handy one day.


May. 24, 2008 | 4:56 PM Nintechno says:

Wow, Thats WAY more complicated than my crappy FL Studio XD


May. 24, 2008 | 6:26 PM mranarchy says:

Do you think in modern times its possible to be a successful musician without exploiting digital technology?

May. 24, 2008 | 10:35 PM liljim responds:

That's a really interesting question and I guess it depends on your definition of exploiting digital equipment (because people have been doing that for a long time - though there's been a shift in WHICH digital equipment is being used over the years).

The cost of hiring recording studios used to be huge not so long ago and you had few viable alternatives if you wanted to record on any scale (as in more than a few instruments). The only real home recording alternatives used to be four track recorders.

These were machines that took regular cassette tapes (chrome were the better quality option) and you had four inputs and four faders on the more recent ones. You could bounce tracks around - so, for example, you could record three tracks, then mix those three down to one track. Then add another two tracks and bounce the three already mixed, plus the new two on to the remaining one. So you'd then have five tracks mixed on one, and three left to record to. Again, you could add another two tracks, and mix the five you'd already got and the new two onto the spare one and so on.

You think it looks complicated written down? You should try doing it, hehe.

I mentioned earlier about different digital equipment being used over the years. I think what you're referring to is the use of computers and whether or not it's possible to make it as a musician (solo) or band without them.

I think it's possible, if you're already in the position of being funded hugely by some record company, or are independently wealthy. The alternatives to computers are very costly - I'll explain.

A little under ten years ago, computers weren't great for recording audio... It just wasn't practical - I mean, 64Mb of RAM was seen as a luxury. I used Cubase VST back in the day, and that lost sync with most of the audio files that were recorded in sync with the metronome running in the program, regularly.

You used to have to record everything over MIDI in Cubase, and then trigger samples from real instruments over (expensive) samplers, if you wanted to do any digital recording - and even then you were outputing to either analog or digital tape - rarely to the computer directly.

That just isn't the case these days. Things have come on in leaps and bounds, so that even the home musician is empowered to recording pretty much what they like.

It's a great step forward, but a step which makes it all the more difficult for the record industry, with respect to choosing artists to sign.


May. 24, 2008 | 6:45 PM MaestroRage says:

mranarchy.

No... no I don't. Way too much stuff people expect you to be able to do with your music nowadays if you want to get to the high places.


May. 25, 2008 | 1:09 AM WolfBlitz2 says:

horay for music
life would be....
what would life be like without music?


May. 25, 2008 | 1:10 AM WolfBlitz2 says:

oh!
I know!
musicless


May. 25, 2008 | 1:16 AM Devex says:

This question reminded me of how Joshua Bell was in DC pretending to be a street musician not too long ago. He's a fantastic violinist, so I'd say it's quite possible.


May. 25, 2008 | 10:20 AM Daniel-M says:

nice!

I'm in a band myself and have recorded a mere three songs, using some lame ass line-6 sound gear, even though the quality is some-what decent.

The line-6 only let's us record 4 tracks, so the 24 track you have is something we'll have to look into :)

thanks for the links and advice

May. 25, 2008 | 9:27 PM liljim responds:

I didn't advise you to buy a 24 track desk - I was just describing what we used way back when.

Nowadays, you can do things much more efficiently with completely digital equipment, so look into those methods! :)


May. 25, 2008 | 3:55 PM SevenSeize says:

The stuff you had recorded in 97-98 sounded great, so I expect the new recordings to be awesome.

Best of luck to all who take part! :-)


May. 25, 2008 | 4:02 PM sonic7845 says:

what did u play?

May. 25, 2008 | 9:28 PM liljim responds:

Pian-pian-pian------O Pian-O, Pian-O.

Sorry. I played lead guitar and some keyboards, which I cleverly cut out of Blackout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_
Music_Man_(song)

Updated: May. 25, 2008, 9:31 PM

May. 25, 2008 | 4:15 PM Rucklo says:

Glad to hear you got your musical interest back up! When recording digitally, I'd reccomend that you don't apply anything at all, just soundcheck and set a decent gainlevel on the input, so that it gets as close to 0dB as you dare. Peaks at 4-5dB usually is good enough.
But since you guys did the recording analouge, that's a differnt thing. Frankly, if you got hardware to work with, it's completley different overall. Some compressors (and other units) actually sounds good when they distort a little bit, it can add alot of character. Though if you gonna add compression, EQ etc. on the recording, you better be damn sure you're doing it right! It's no fun to get the guitar on That Dream-take ruined because of too hard compression, or whatever.

To get the best sound? It's all about knowing the equipement - with the digital revolution, there are loads of new ways to get different sounds. It's always good to blend things up.

If you're interested in recording and mixing and want to read a good book, cause you have no time to actually mix yourself :) you should definitley chek this out:

http://www.mixingwithyourmind.com/

(buy the book, that is)

May. 25, 2008 | 9:38 PM liljim responds:

I couldn't agree more with the respects to instruments you're used to recording. And even stuff like electric guitars - I wouldn't ever bother pre-compressing that.

However, with vocals, drums, acoustic guitars etc, where there's major differences in dynamics, I think it's always wise to apply some soft compression as they're recorded - particularly with vocals.


May. 26, 2008 | 2:31 AM Nuttro says:

your more on the technical side of NG rather than the animating type, am I right?


May. 26, 2008 | 2:53 PM Sentinel94 says:

Man, if YOU'RE going back into music, I'm REALLY screwed....say goodbye to a hope in hell, Sentinel. =P. Well, our UK friend, best of luck going back into the production biz.
-Sentinel94


May. 30, 2008 | 5:23 AM Chandelier says:

I say what what, in the butt.


Jun. 7, 2008 | 3:07 PM Rucklo says:

Speaking of the songs you have submitted to here... they remind me vaugley of an old english group called "New Model Army". Since you're from the GB, you might have heard of them? I used to lisetn to them alot when I was a kid. I was halfway into that black-rock/goth-rock type of music back then, with everything from Sisters of Mercy, The cure etc... So, did you ever hear NMA?

Jun. 8, 2008 | 11:00 AM liljim responds:

The name rings a bell, but I don't recall ever listening to anything by them.


Jun. 9, 2008 | 10:46 PM puddinN64 says:

Yay!


Jun. 14, 2008 | 4:43 AM Oddler says:

Why do they call you "lil" jim....

What's so...."lil" about you? Cough

Jun. 14, 2008 | 5:31 PM liljim responds:

I'm 5' 6" tall. I have a friend who's 6' 4" tall, who is also called Jim. We were getting confused in conversation when other friends were addressing "Jim", so I got labelled as Little Jim, him as Big Jim. Not that inspiring a story, but there you have it.


Jun. 18, 2008 | 2:42 AM Tyrant12 says:

It has been too long, get your xbox fixed. We need to tear up Gears again while I call bullshit on every death I get.


Jun. 20, 2008 | 3:41 PM agustana says:

My dad has the same shirt as you.

Haha, I'm sorry. I just thought it was neat. (:


Jun. 24, 2008 | 10:49 PM ZexPez says:

post on ma userpage plz :3


Jun. 27, 2008 | 5:43 PM X-Gary-Gigax-X says:

cool


Jul. 7, 2008 | 1:54 AM TomsPulp says:

coolzwers!


Jul. 7, 2008 | 7:50 PM Unkle-Krakerz says:

You don't know how long it's been since my browser stepped into your profile.


Jul. 10, 2008 | 6:07 PM Jozzalanco says:

I'm glad you were into music.

Did you have a name for your band you were in?


Jul. 10, 2008 | 6:56 PM C1ph3r says:

That thing reminds me of VirtualDJ.

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